DVE or AVIA

[myawela]

I'd like to pick one of these up to use on my TV so out of the two, which does everyone think is better?

Surrealist, you've used both haven't you? I seem to recall a post where you said one of them didn't completely work with the 360 or something?

[surrealist]

Avia is more user friendly. I've read you would have to know a little about calibration to use DVE.

[myawela]

Well, seeing as how I really don't know anything about calibration, I guess I'll go with Avia. So I suppose that Avia gives you a little description of what you're doing while you're doing it? There isn't a ton of stuff really in my service menu so I think I could manage if I spend some time with it.

[surrealist]

Yes, I like it. I have color set to NSTC standard.. looks awesome!

[myawela]

Cool, I'm going to order it from Amazon. Thanks Surrealist, I trust your opinion on this stuff. :)

[surrealist]

You will love it! Avia guides you through everything.

Get ready for the best picture quality your HDTV can produce ;)

[wonder boy]

service menu? are you talking about those hidden menus tvs have that you can mess around with to fix stuff like greyscale and overscan?

or are you talking about the usual menu tv have that have like color, shapness, brightness and others?

i did find my service menu code on the avs forums, i tried to fix my overscan but i dont think it did anything. i really shouldnt have dont it, i could have permenently made my tv into a paper weight.

[surrealist]

service menu? are you talking about those hidden menus tvs have that you can mess around with to fix stuff like greyscale and overscan?

or are you talking about the usual menu tv have that have like color, shapness, brightness and others?

i did find my service menu code on the avs forums, i tried to fix my overscan but i dont think it did anything. i really shouldnt have dont it, i could have permenently made my tv into a paper weight.
No, there's no service menu tweaks here.. all is done in the user menu.

user friendly :0

[myawela]

yeah, I was talking about the actual "service menu" where the more in depth options are. There's not a lot and as long as I write down the original values I'll be ok messing with them a little bit if I get that deeply into it.

So Surrealist, since the Avia stuff is all related to the basic user menu items, is it really that much more in depth than the THX video optimization stuff you can find on THX cert. DVDs? I used the SW: EP3 DVD to setup my stuff so far and it looks great for movies, but I find that I need different settings for 360 games, movies and xbox games because the movie settings usually make games a bit too dark for me. Luckily I have 3 video presets that I can configure seperately so it works out good for me that way.

I think the main issue that my TV has outside of the regular user setup is the overscan in 1080i. Other than that the geometry seems to be fine. Most games don't have a big problem with it but on some games (especially GUN) I really notice it because words are cut off on certain menus and stuff. Overall, it isn't a big issue but I may play around with it a bit.

[surrealist]

So Surrealist, since the Avia stuff is all related to the basic user menu items, is it really that much more in depth than the THX video optimization stuff you can find on THX cert. DVDs?


Yes, way!! more in depth... you'll see.

I think the main issue that my TV has outside of the regular user setup is the overscan in 1080i. Other than that the geometry seems to be fine.

are you having overscan problems? remember games like PDZ and Halo 2 overscan hud issues is the game fault, not the TV. there was even a patch for Halo 2.

[myawela]

I don't think it's a big problem since most dvds and games seem to compensate for a little bit of overscan anyway. Most things are fine, I just really noticed it in GUN since there's some stuff at the bottom cut off a little bit while in the menus. Other than that I haven't really noticed too much that stands out except that in PGR3 in the garage the car emblems are real close to being cut a bit on the right side of the screen, but they're still barely within range.

I switched GUN to 480p and everything was alright, and I also noticed in the THX calibration that the bottom and left side of one of the boxes in one of the tests was real close to disappearing off the screen.

[surrealist]

Do you know how to get in your TV service menu? what's the model#?

[myawela]

yeah, I know how to get into the service menu. It's a CT-30WX15 Panasonic.

In the service menu there's a lot of acronyms for stuff, but there really isn't a lot of things. It's setup fairly simple enough to where things are categorized so it shouldn't be too hard to access the features I need, I think I've actually seen them already. I think it should be fairly simple to figure out and I suppose I could use the box in the THX setup as a guide for now. I really just discovered how much overscan there was when I rented GUN and I just haven't got around to trying yet.

I'd imagine that any adjustments I make horizontally need to also be compensated vertically to keep the aspect of the picture, then I'd just need to center everything once it fits the screen correctly. Any other tips you may have for me in doing this Surrealist?

[surrealist]

well the Avia disc has lots of overscan thingys to help you set geometry.. I haven't use THX setup but Avia was made for full calibration.

One thing to remember is CRT will never give you perfect geometry. A little overscan is normal.. and needed.

I bought PDZ today. There's slight overscan but its not bad.. I mean I can read my hud.

http://mars.walagata.com/w/gobg/138829319081.jpg

http://mars.walagata.com/w/gobg/182006362133.jpg

http://mars.walagata.com/w/gobg/2815194.jpg

http://mars.walagata.com/w/gobg/5964781.jpg

http://mars.walagata.com/w/gobg/5645681.jpg

http://mars.walagata.com/w/gobg/5132101953.jpg

http://mars.walagata.com/w/gobg/9308981.jpg

[myawela]

yeah, I think I'm going to wait until I get the avia disc to do anything. I spent a little time getting more familiar with the service menu and how the things in there work so at least I'm pretty ready for it.

Seems like people on Amazon mostly gave it good reviews, but a common complaint seems to be the navigation in the avia disc. I'm sure it probably isn't that bad though since only really a few people complained about it out of the 50+ reviews.

I was checking out the overscan on my TV some more too. It seems like most it's not that much, I think GUN just had stuff right at the edge of the screen to begin with and it was only really on the bottom while paused. Seems that I'm only losing less than half an inch so that's not a biggie and like I said, all other games the stuff doesn't get cut off. It may come close to the edge, but it's still there.


Let me know what you think of PDZ. I didn't like it too much but I've been thinking about giving it another chance just because there's not a lot left out there to rent right now for me.

Thanks for the help Surrealist. :)

[surrealist]

Let me know what you think of PDZ. I didn't like it too much but I've been thinking about giving it another chance just because there's not a lot left out there to rent right now for me.

Thanks for the help Surrealist. :)

So far i'm liking, it took me a while to get used to it, but now its great.. ;)

Had a friend play co-op in Perfect Dark with me, he's loves Halo. The idiot went around gunning everyting in sight and failed our mission. The Halo crowd will probably have a hard time adjusting to the game.

[myawela]

hmm, I'm going to head over to Blockbuster in a little bit here for some movies and to return GUN. If I don't see anything else maybe I'll check it out again just to get through the single player. I was kinda interested in checking out NHL 2k6 but I already have 2k5 and reviews of 2k6 have been kinda mixed so I don't know.

[myawela]

One last question about Avia for you Surrealist. Are there parts I'm going to encounter where I have to use number buttons to navigate, instead of just moving a cursor type thing around? Someone mentioned that in their review on Amazon and I intend to use this in my 360 so I'll either have to try to get one of my other remote controls to work with it or get that other 360 remote that has number buttons if this is the case.

[surrealist]

One last question about Avia for you Surrealist. Are there parts I'm going to encounter where I have to use number buttons to navigate, instead of just moving a cursor type thing around?

Nope. all is done with the cursor...unless your TV itself navigate the user menu with number buttons.

[myawela]

Cool, thanks Surrealist.

[myawela]

I got my Avia disc yesterday and did the basic settings. Compared to the THX setup, I can more accurately adjust the contrast from the descriptions and patterns they give on the Avia disc. I was actually very close on the last settings that I had done by my own eyes (just two clicks away from where it should have been), but the THX setup had me setting it way too high when I used that. My brightness was a little too high so I brought that back down to where it should be, this is the part I think that will take the most getting used to.

The color and hue are also easier to adjust with the colored filters you look through. I was actually already right on with both of these settings before using the disc. Looking at the blue, red and green charts I can tell that my red is slightly high and my green is a bit low but the picture looks good the way it is and from what they say on the disc, my red and green levels are in acceptable range. What's strange is that I was unable to enter the red/green color settings on the service menu from the 480p mode I was in. My tv's service menu is organized by resolution and stretch modes, then there are also things that change depending on what user preset (standard, cinema and vivid) is in use. When I'm in 1080i mode I know that I can get into just about all of the settings but in 480p there are many (most in fact) which are just grayed out. I should probably see what settings I have available in 480i and see if I can fix it from there because I don't have any way to display a DVD in 1080i at the moment.

The adjustment that changed the most was the sharpness, the THX disc didn't help me too much at all with that and I had been going by a setting that I found from someone on avsforum that had the same tv I have. Using the Avia disc, I turned the sharpness up considerably from where I had it and it looks a lot better.

Although my settings didn't change drastically from where I had ended up with them by my own eyes, the difference it pretty nice after using the disc. I can already see more detail in things but I still need to get used to the darker picture. Games can look too dark at times (movies look fine like this) but I suppose I just need to let myself get used to it a bit more. I'll give it a week as they recommend and see how I feel about it then.

I checked out a couple of the advanced patterns and stuff, but I haven't gotten too much into those yet. There's quite a bit of stuff in this disc so I'm sure I'll be able to play with it for a while and figure out how to fine tune some stuff to make it look even better.

[surrealist]

Once you finish post your setting;)

here's mine,

contrast 38

brightness 45

color 40

tint "middle"

I have no color or other enhancers on.

.... I also turn off red push in my service menu and tweak sharpness (Hitachi issues)

My picture look awesome! after Avia calibration. I hope you see a difference that is worth the price you paid for Avia myawela.

Here a pic of Xboxgamers LCD compare to my CRT on the same level in PDZ,

xboxgamers
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/XboxGamers/Samsung-LCD-HDTV-PDO3.jpg

surrealist
http://mars.walagata.com/w/gobg/4017423.jpg

You can really see the lack of true blacks in the LCD version, while in the CRT version the blacks clamp to black fully and completely, allowing true depth perception. It's much more 3D like. As for the color... well you can see for yourself.

I recommend Avia to xboxgamers.

[myawela]

Here's my settings now, on my TV the maximum value for these settings is 63...

Contrast = 33
Brightness = 31
Color = 20
Tint = 31
Sharpness = 24

This is also with no extra color enhancers on.

I used to have my brightness set higher than my contrast as you have but after using the Avia disc that changed. It all depends on the tv anyway though.


Here were my settings with the THX setup...

Contrast = 40
Brightness = 30
Color = 27 (This was a setting I got off avsforum from someone with the same tv)
Tint = 31
Sharpness = 11 (Also a setting from someone on avsforum)

Color and sharpness were hard to adjust with the THX setup and didn't really have any way to tell if it was right or not so I used those settings from a thread at avsforum.

[surrealist]

I learn a lot from Avia disc..like brightness control really is black level. If you want the picture to look like what the game programmers intended you need to set your display to NSTC standards. The Avia disc does this.

[wonder boy]

i thought some devs used LCD tvs to test the games on, thus screwing things up and thats how some games ended up abnormaly dark.

[surrealist]

i thought some devs used LCD tvs to test the games on, thus screwing things up and thats how some games ended up abnormaly dark.
True.. TeamNinja dosent like LCDs at all! Tomonobu Itagaki comment on LCDs not being able to showcase color accurately.

Here's a few pics I took today.

http://mars.walagata.com/w/gobg/519519075257.jpg

http://mars.walagata.com/w/gobg/6523892.jpg

http://mars.walagata.com/w/gobg/656416633003.jpg

[myawela]

I'm getting a bit more used to it now that I've watched it a little bit. I watched Batman Begins on it since I picked that up the other day and it looked great, lots of dark scenes to showcase my new brightness settings. :)

Some games do appear a tad bit dark, but I'm probably still pretty used to having those really cranked up in the brightness dept. It's only really been a couple days since changing it and they say to wait a week and see what you think so I'll do that before I pass judgement on the settings.

[surrealist]

Some games do appear a tad bit dark, but I'm probably still pretty used to having those really cranked up in the brightness dept.

I agree with you there, perhaps a little bump in brightness or contrast wouldn't hurt.. as long as its in line with Avia.

[surrealist]

AVIA is releasing a High Definition calibration disc for HDTVs soon. I believe DVE already has one out.

[Chief Ediri]

Avia.